Cellular Building Repeater

[prhowe]

I tried searching, but didn't find any posts matching my situation.

I need to install a cellular repeater / booster / BIDA in the basement of a hospital. There are so many manufacturers of these products now, I wanted to see if anybody had any that they want to rave about. I have used Wilson amps before, but they are kind of medium quality. I was looking for something more professional. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks !

[Bill_G]

Tx/Rx
Andrew

[wavetar]

We have installed 30-40 Spotwave systems with great results. They are the only "Bell Canada approved" non-engineered in-building cellular solution up here in the Great White North. They can be had in varying coverage levels, from 2,500 sqft (single low-power indoor coverage unit) up to 100,000 sqft (4 high power indoor coverage units in a Hub configuration). Higher price than the Wilson product, but actually quite cost effective for what it can be made to do.

http://www.spotwave.com/

One caveat is there are cable length restrictions, mainly due to the fact the outdoor 'Donor Unit' (DU) is powered through the RF cabling (24v DC). Typical max lengths as given by Spotwave are 25 meters between DU and first CU (indoor coverage unit) with RG6 cable, and 50 meters with RG11. A second CU can daisy chain off the first, and cable length can be up to 100 meters of RG11 between CU's, as there is no voltage carried, simply signal. I suppose you could use a higher grade cable such as 75-ohm 1/2-inch Heliax and extend these limits if desired, but we've never had to 'go there'.

The CU is powered via A/C plug, and powers the DU via the RF cabling. So, there needs to be an A/C outlet installed wherever you are placing the CU(s).

The cellular carriers like them as they are carrier specific...the 'A' carrier units will not enhance competing 'B' frequencies & vice versa.

[N4DES]

Be sure to coordinate with your carrier of choice as the FCC has been coming down on individuals and companies that install their own BDA's. You can find this on the enforcement bureau's website and would hate to see you spend a whole lot of $ just to be shut down.

The carrier might want to sign a contract with the hospital, but it could be a win-win for both.

[prhowe]

Thanks for all the great input.

I had considered (and asked) about licensing, or having to sign agreements with cell carriers, and all of the companies have given me all different answers.

I talked to Andrew / Comscope and if I use one model, I must have one BIDA for each cell carrier and I must have signed agreements, and their equipment runs $3k to over $60k

I talked for a long time today with Wilson. They adamantly said that none of their repeaters need agreements or licenses. They said they are all FCC approved and the AGC on them makes the rooftop antenna seem just like you are standing on the roof with your cell phone.

I tried all morning to call Spotwave and their phone system was freaking out. I would get through and press '2' for tech support and *poof* it hangs up on me. I need a Press '2' like that for my office .. I got through to one person, that took my name and number and promised a tech callback, but no one called.

Our primary need is Verizon, so I think I'll stick my neck out and call our Verizon rep to see what they say.

By saying "enforcement bureau's website" , I am assuming the FCC? I didn't search their sites for compliance issues, but will look tonight and maybe even try to call over there tomorrow.

This is turning out to be an interesting topic. Almost like a sharp poke in the eyeball.

Thanks everyone.. I'll post my findings..

[MTS2000des]

Be sure to coordinate with your carrier of choice as the FCC has been coming down on individuals and companies that install their own BDA's. You can find this on the enforcement bureau's website and would hate to see you spend a whole lot of $ just to be shut down.

The carrier might want to sign a contract with the hospital, but it could be a win-win for both.

that's the best route to go. Our system has a contract with Verizon, they installed TX/RX BDA's at all our facilities. (we have 5 hospitals in our system) They also have the responsibility to maintain them, and they are on a 4 hour response time with any service call. We also get a tremendous discount on subscriber equipment and individual pricing plans as employees of the system. Win-win deal.

[MikeOxlong]

For large installations we tend to use Allgon repeaters with either RF or Fiber distributed antenna systems.

Looks like Allgon has been bought out by Powerwave.

http://www.powerwave.com/default.asp

[2531]

would this help?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... 53736c8355

[N4DES]

Thanks for all the great input.

I had considered (and asked) about licensing, or having to sign agreements with cell carriers, and all of the companies have given me all different answers.

I talked to Andrew / Comscope and if I use one model, I must have one BIDA for each cell carrier and I must have signed agreements, and their equipment runs $3k to over $60k

I talked for a long time today with Wilson. They adamantly said that none of their repeaters need agreements or licenses. They said they are all FCC approved and the AGC on them makes the rooftop antenna seem just like you are standing on the roof with your cell phone.

Thanks everyone.. I'll post my findings..

Don't believe Wilson....they are totally incorrect. Also there is no way for you to "license" a private BDA in already licensed spectrum, even if the equipment is type accepted. You need to talk to Verizion.
Yes I meant the FCC Enforcement Bureau website. There have been a number of instances nation-wide where the FCC has shut down privately installed BDA's and cell jammers.

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003 ... 530A1.html

The frequency 842 MHz is authorized for use by Verizon. Verizon has
informed the Commission that it did not provide you authorization to
install a BDA. Furthermore, Commission records show no license issued to
WG for operation of a radio station at this location on 842 MHz.

[MSS-Dave]

Mark is very correct. You run the risk of FCC shutting you down if the cell system owner or the Public Safety SMR manager finds out where the wide signal that's hammering their uplink and shutting channels down is coming from...

Not raving or endorsing but the system that AT&T put in for us is a combination CSI BDA for 880/1900 Cellular and a Mobile Access Fiber Optic DAS. It works very well. We had CSI add another CSI BDA for our 800 SMR to the same DAS through a combiner system. CSI's engineering plans match closely to the actual performance we see in various parts of the campus.

Dave

[wa6jbd]

I talked for a long time today with Wilson. They adamantly said that none of their repeaters need agreements or licenses.

This is simply not true.

They said they are all FCC approved and the AGC on them makes the rooftop antenna seem just like you are standing on the roof with your cell phone.

Wilson BDA's are poorly manufactured, and the so-called AGC can be less than helpful. I had one memorable case of interference that was causing severe interference to a public safety system that turned out to be a Wilson BDA. It was found to be so poorly shielded that RF would couple from the donor antenna straight to it's own circuit board, and would oscillate, even with the interior antenna port terminated in a dummy load. The overload light was illuminated, but the AGC did nothing to clamp the oscillations. Intensity of oscillation was enough to DF the noise source, and it led me straight to the house it was installed at.

[FatBoy]

I have had poor results with the earlier versions of the Andrew BDA stuff. Also, do NOT let Tessco/Hutton "engineer" your system. CSI equipment has always worked well in my applications. If this system is as large as you describe, definately get the carrier involved. They will do a BDA system (most carriers are using fiber DAS here lately), but it will only help the in-building coverage on their specific system. Do your research on the system integrator/installer of the BDA system when you get to that point. Sprint/Nextel used some dregs of humanity here and the systems never powrked properly (wrong coax type, connectors impropery installed, no fire-proofing, inputs installed as outputs, antennas pointed wrong, etc). FatBoy